Episode 48 - Xfce 4.4

[Chess]

In this episode: Linux in public schools; the release of Microsoft Vista; a discussion of Xfce 4.4 and the related Xfce Goodies project; an audio Listener Tip on changing window buttons in GNOME; listener feedback.

http://www.linuxreality.com/podcast/episode-48-xfce-44/

[Astinsan]

I totally agree with the issue about the Schools.  I think that it is pretty obvious how out of touch the school systems are... we saw what happened to a substitute teacher with spyware... this wouldn't have happened if they had a linux system running..

[tristian]

I'm going to speak the ultimate heresy. A computer is a computer.The reality is most businesses use Windows. And most  teachers are lucky to get Windows up and running. Frankly, a kindergarten classroom should not even have a computer, but should teach the ABC's.

[lnxguit]

True, a computer is a computer.  But our tax dollars are supporting a closed system, and I don't think that's the right approach.  There's no reason schools shouldn't be using free and open source software.  Take just a bit of the money to hire a part time linux admin, then plow the rest into salaries and school infrastructure.

[thelastknowngod]

i agree, let the tax dollars be better spent. teachers get very little as it is. no reason they shouldnt be cut a break.

as for xfce, i think im going to give it a shot. i installed Thunar alone and it is really nice. hopefully the rest of the DE will be the same.

[tristian]

One reason that schools don't use Linux is there may be educational software that just isn't available on Linux. I doubt a kindergarten class is going to be using Microsoft Word when they are learning the ABC's. But they probably use some type of software to aid instruction.

Moving to Linux would require retraining. This would take time and money too. I can imagine the reaction from teachers who might be a bit technophobic when they learn about the move. And I doubt teachers would be happy to take time away from the duties to be retrained. Moving to Linux would probably also require and enterprise solution which also cost money. There is no free beer.

We need to hear from teachers who really know what they are talking about. That is if they have the time to post.

[N74JW]

Hello,

Great episode!  We can tell that Chess likes XFCE...

I can't sign-on with XFCE at the same level.  I have Xubuntu 6.06 running as a file server at home, and getting to know XFCE was A ROYAL PAIN.  It was easier for me to learn how to install Gnome and take it from there. 

I agree that Linux should have a place in education.  Take a look at Edubuntu.  I have set that up for some families around here and it works until the kids want to install a program they purchased at Best Buy.  The complaining child and the assertive mother will not care about Linux evangelism when it comes to making the child happy and quiet.

Tristian's post is pretty accurate.  Most teacher's I know can barely get Windows or a Mac running, Linux would be asking too much.  Linux should implemented in those cases where Windows 98 still persists, and where the school is too cheap to upgrade it's technology.  The example of the substitute teacher in new England is a travesty.  The IT admins for that school should have been the one on trial.

Linux is great, I love it, but it can be a royal pain to configure.  My latest attempt is listed in the forums.  I cannot get a resolution of more than 800x600 for Fedora Core 6.  This is something that Vista/XP could handle without a problem, and if not, fixing it would be much easier than playing with X.  Windows has Linux/Mac beat, hands-down, when it comes to file sharing as well.  I have read whole books on Samba, but it never works the same way twice...

my 2 cents...

[BarkingPerci]

Right - I'm a bit on the fence about this for a few reasons.

First let me start off by saying that I think that schools should have a few Linux boxes around for variety.  I would think a few Linux boxes setup - even with a Live CD distro would suffice for 'research' computers (in Library) which only need to be able to browse the Internet, perhaps the Card Catalog, and print.  We should all know that students use the Library's computers to go on MySpace, YouTube etc. but least it would be safer.

Two thoughts:

I just always assumed that M$ gave a break to schools - I figured it was in their best interest to 'get em' while they're young' and indoctrinate our youth as Windows-people early on.  It seems like a fantastic long-term business strategy.  Of course maybe you don't need to do such things when you control the universe.

The flip-side of this is the fact that (unfortunately yes) M$ is everywhere (like Kilroy 2.0) and (yes unfortunately) to have any hope of getting a modern job you need to be familiar within the Windows environment.  Right or wrong  you are doing your children a dis-service by shielding them from that which they cannot avoid in their professional lives.
This is why I think that all 'internet gateway' or connected boxes should run Linux, but you need the M$ boxes as well as part of an education for survival in the real world.  (at least in High School students need some basic Windows skills imo (at this time . . . for now).

---------

I've posted that I like XFCE, but I've had major issues with the RCs - I am excited to give 4.4 a real shot.  I think it would be great if someone came up with a 'lighter' Qt-based WM for KDE fans with older hardware (or with simpler needs)

[lnxguit]

I don't think there would be much adjustment going from Linux to Windows (Open Office to Microsoft Office, for example).  These kids aren't going to be the administrators, they'll just be using programs.  I just don't think we should be using public money to support a private monopoly.

[UltraZelda64]

My favorite part of Xfce4 is how easy it is to add custom entries to your right-click menu in Thunar, and the seemingly unlimited useful shortcuts that can be made this way.  Even better, they're context-sensitive, so they won't pop up when not needed (ie. a text file or something).  For example, I have one set up so that whenever I right-click on an audio file, multiple audio files, or a directory (which could, of course, contain audio files), an entry "Play in Audacious" pops up.  Click that, and whatever file(s) and/or folders you've selected will do just that.  I also have another called "Add to playlist" which, again, works just as expected.

In case anyone doesn't know about this and wants to try it, here's an example on doing this:

1.  Open Thunar, click Edit, and then Configure custom actions...
2.  Click the + button (add)
3.  Give it a name (ie. Play in Audacious) and, if you want, a description
4.  For the command, type "audacious %F" (no quotes)
5.  Optionally, give it an icon
6.  On the "Appearance Conditions" tab, check Directories and Audio Files, and make sure all others are unselected.

And that's it.  If you want an "add to playlist" entry, create a new one, modify the name and description, set the command to "audacious -e %F" and check Directories and Audio Files as in the previous example.  Some cool and extremely useful stuff can be done this way... it's one of those features I don't know how I ever lived without.

[theWizdomCube]

I work for a public school district in Pittsburgh PA in the IT department and agree with the school comments.  Some students do think word processing means Word.  Recently I've seen a small number of students asking for OpenOffice and Firefox, which is cool.  The only problem is that so much educational software is written for Windows.  We're still using some software meant for Win95 on XP.  We use Linux for our web servers and OS X in our art department and to be honest I do most of my development on a MacBook Pro (Intel) and upload to Linux servers (Debian /Fedora/Mandrake).  I will say Mac has made some major strides in terms of using open source software and I think schools would feel more comfortable buying Macs before they buy machines to run Linux.  I've seen the educational software packages for Debian but I don't think they're quite ready to replace every piece of Windows software that's out there.  I'm not sure doing away with Windows completely is a good way to go anyway.  Ideally I think exposing students to all that's out there will only help them in the long run because overall computer illiteracy among teachers and students alike is rampant, more so in the older generations.  eh, that's what I think anyway.

[tristian]

Hey Chess,

Great show. I have installed Xfce on one of my boxes. A bit minimalist for my taste, but it does seem to be cool.

[jza]

chess go and buy your wife a nice $200 USD gift for valentine and then tell her, this gift is thanks to LINUX otherwise those 250 would have gone on some Vista Ultimate license.

[thelastknowngod]

chess go and buy your wife a nice $200 USD gift for valentine and then tell her, this gift is thanks to LINUX otherwise those 250 would have gone on some Vista Ultimate license.

haha... thats great.

[Brian]

The Department of Education in my home state of Indiana has the Indiana Access program for bringing Linux and OSS into the classrooms. http://www.doe.state.in.us/inaccess/about_inaccess.html

The DoE's rationale for using Linux:

WHY LINUX?

The sustainability model for the Indiana ACCESS project relies on keeping costs as low as possible for schools.  Using Linux as the operating system and open source for the application stack, we have been able to keep software costs to about $13-$18 per machine per year.  This includes software update support. The traditional model for similar software would cost more than $200 per computer.   This cost differential allows for the acquisition of additional hardware for placement in classrooms.  Ultimately, if laptop computers become more affordable and replace the desktop model in Indiana ACCESS, low-cost software will still make sense.

Part of the Indiana ACCESS project is to test the viability of Linux on the desktop in classrooms.  The low-cost hardware/low-cost software approach provides exciting opportunities for K-12 education.  As training opportunities improve for  Linux, and local school staff become more aware of its capabilities, we should see an increased level of sophistication and use.

The DoE has several resources including a study recommending retiring or discontinuing  Microsoft products in favor of Linux and Web-based educational resources. http://www.doe.state.in.us/inaccess/pdf/inACCESS_readiness-assessment.pdf

More information can be found here: http://www.doe.state.in.us/inaccess/welcome.html

I think XFCE would be an appealling desktop environment for schoolchildren.